PSN Game sharing Illegal? YES

[Aquil0]

SORRY Guys a friend of mine told me this was legal, But before giving the green light to ecogamers to game share I thought I should read the PSN T&C (slow work day) after reading PSNs Terms and conditions...

" All content and software provided through PSN are licensed non-exclusively and revocably to you, your children and children for whom you are a legal guardian (collectively for purposes of this section, "You" or "Your"), solely for Your personal, non-commercial use on the PLAYSTATION?3 computer entertainment system unit or any other hardware devices authorized by SCEA, subject to the terms of this Agreement."

It turns out that PSN game sharing is NOT legal at all (unless you are sharing with your legal gardian).. Sorry my F**K up

[Craig]

Sounds good, just as long as you know/trust who you're dealing with I guess.

[AgentEarlGray]

Sounds good, just as long as you know/trust who you're dealing with I guess.

Exactamondo

People you know personaly and trust.
It's like buying a DVD and lending it to your mate whilst having a ripped copy at home. If you'd do that then Game Sharing is for you. Obviously some people will find this unethical, but thats down to personal choice and not a debate I'm about to get involved in.

[suicine94]

it's not illegal, from reading that inviting your friend to you house and letting him play it is illegal. or lending it to you friend to "use" is illegal... so yea the rules are misleading. sharing is ok.

[Aquil0]

If you want to trick yourself into believing that sharing is legal be my guest.
Sony currently dont police it, but if they decide to swing a ban hammer... dont come crying.

ALSO
Its nothing like inviting your friend over to play! As the content is on YOUR machine (So thats legal). The terms and conditions clearly state "Your personal".."hardware devices" not the person playing it.

[SimOniS]

isnt there a limit on how many times a PSN game can be shared ? that prevents this from happening rampantly

[Gameboy]

isnt there a limit on how many times a PSN game can be shared ? that prevents this from happening rampantly

Yep, 5 times.

Also note that some things, like Warhawk for example, can only be used on one console. It always says in the description how many it can be used on, but the vast majority of things can be shared up to five times.

[stev418]

well how do the user know what is right when sony reps themselves said stuff like this?!

"You can send that content to four other friends for that initial investment," said Tretton. "We want to get the game in as many hands as possible."

Read More http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2006/10/71982#ixzz0uE3Ab29x

Also another point is that T&C arent laws, they are terms and conditions of a company, so i suppose it would be up to a court to decide about the 'legality' of it, similar to what happened with modchips when SONY decided they didnt like them. But with quotes like above how would sony really look?

[S1NGULAR1TY]

well how do the user know what is right when sony reps themselves said stuff like this?!

"You can send that content to four other friends for that initial investment," said Tretton. "We want to get the game in as many hands as possible."

Read More http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/news/2006/10/71982#ixzz0uE3Ab29x

Also another point is that T&C arent laws, they are terms and conditions of a company, so i suppose it would be up to a court to decide about the 'legality' of it, similar to what happened with modchips when SONY decided they didnt like them. But with quotes like above how would sony really look?

The user knows what's right because it's in the Terms and Conditions. Even if the 2006 [when the Wired article was from] Terms and Conditions said it was fine [which I'd doubt], if a newer version says it's not fine, you're bound by the newer version. And, of course, newer versions are always cropping up and require you to accept them to use the PS3.

And yes, the terms and conditions aren't court-enforceable laws, they're Sony-enforceable restraints on how you use your PS3. Break a T&C and they can cut your access to the PSN, effectively removing most of the game-based functionality.

[alexkidd]

Break a T&C and they can cut your access to the PSN, effectively removing most of the game-based functionality.

So has this ever happened. I am broadly under the impression sharing has been encouraged by Sony, especially on their PS3 discussion forum, where as a user gains reputation they are better trusted to share PSN details with. Also people meet on there and agree "lets split this DLC 5 ways and it will be just pennies"..

[S1NGULAR1TY]

So has this ever happened. I am broadly under the impression sharing has been encouraged by Sony, especially on their PS3 discussion forum, where as a user gains reputation they are better trusted to share PSN details with. Also people meet on there and agree "lets split this DLC 5 ways and it will be just pennies"..

It's probably happened.. it's not like there's a press release when it occurs, though. And common sense/economic sense suggests it'd only happen to the more severe breaches [say, someone who's selling their splits on eBay or something?], but the above post is a How Often Is The Law Enforced question, not what I discussed [a What Is The Law question].

The fact that people discuss doing it on Sony forums is irrelevant. Sony doesn't need to employ moderators to hassle/monitor this sort of discussion because each and every single user of the PSN is automatically bound by, yes, the T&Cs.

It's like downloading music/movies illegally. 'Everyone' does it, but that doesn't stop it being illegal. Companies can be aware that it's happening by monitoring torrents, but just because they don't email/sue you every single time, that doesn't mean they endorse the behaviour. Like the T&C discussion, it'll only affect your life if *you* end up being the one they make an example of.. and if/when they do, you won't have any defense.

[Aquil0]

This obviously needs to be clarified by Sony, There T&C reads that you cant do it (Unless its with a legal gardien). The internet forums are rife with misinformation. However you can be banned read the following which has been lifted from Sony.

Why is my PlayStation Network account banned?

Share / Hijack Account
Sharing personal PSN account information in order to obtain access to another persons PSN account. Changing another persons email address, and/or password without their permission in order to gain and control access to an account. Offender attempted to use or take content they did not pay for."

Link: http://us.playstation.com/support/answer/index.htm?a_id=1260

Interesting side note, this seems to be a ban on the PSN account Not the PS3 Mechine.
(Would that mean you could just make a new account?)

[chonka]

its all interesting, but im sure the ACCC/AU court would not be impressed that we are locked out of US psn and its content.

eg. I just purchased Suikoden and Grandia off US PSN, so the only way to do that is share a US account OR open a user with a 'fake' address is US, either way these are both against Sony T&C but id love to know how ACCC would see it

[ArjaytheGuy]

its all interesting, but im sure the ACCC/AU court would not be impressed that we are locked out of US psn and its content.

eg. I just purchased Suikoden and Grandia off US PSN, so the only way to do that is share a US account OR open a user with a 'fake' address is US, either way these are both against Sony T&C but id love to know how ACCC would see it

I really don't think the ACCC would try and protect an Australian's rights to access foreign content.

that'd be like you trying to argue that because you can import DVD from a different region all DVD players should play it (personally I dislike the DVD region coding and have worked around the region locks for both my laptop and the DVD player hooked up to my DVD but that's a side issue).

the ACCC would likely roll their eyes and ask why you bought a product that you knew (if you read the T & C) that you may be barred from accessing if Sony decided to enforce the T & C?

 "ACCC/AU court would not be impressed that we are locked out of US psn and its content."
the ACCC or an Australian court would wonder why you're bitching about being barred access to something that isn't designed for you to access.  That'd be like (prepare for an hyperbolic exageration) me arguing that I should be able to import Marihuana from Amsterdam because it's allowed to be used over there.

No-one is going to protect you if you make a deliberate attempt to circumvent the T & C.

it's like a person deciding to speed on the highway because "everyone does it"... fine.. that's your CHOICE.. but if you do get booked one time for speeding you can have a sook and cry "ohh.. but everyone does it... why am I being victimised! boo-hoo".  If you choose to speed... and many do.. and you do get caught at some stage.. you have to wear it (although I always find it funny the amount of people who want to have a winge).

I apologise for this post being off topic.

getting back on topic I would imagine that if you were to do PSN account sharing it would be better to do it in a small group of friends and not to have each of you share with different accounts

ie. I imagine if 5 users shared their content; Sony wouldn't bother trying to chase them up on it.. however say if users A, B, and C  shared access; but user A also shared with users P and Q,  and B also shared with X and Y, and C also shared with M and N; and then P also share with L, L2, L3.... well you get my drift.

hypothetically if a person were to share with three people they could try and argue that they were all siblings, or somesuch (probably not successfully given that they'd have different names and addresses, but it could be something).

[chonka]

I really don't think the ACCC would try and protect an Australian's rights to access foreign content.
that'd be like you trying to argue that because you can import DVD from a different region all DVD players should play it (personally I dislike the DVD region coding and have worked around the region locks for both my laptop and the DVD player hooked up to my DVD but that's a side issue).

...um maybe you havent noticed, but practically all dvd players now sold in australia are region free for this very reason
"The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has warned that DVD players that enforce region coding may violate their Trade Practices Act." I have a Pioneer 400V and it was region free out of the box (even though it says region 4)

Also the same reason modchips are legal in australia
"Sony sought to impose restrictions on the ordinary rights of owners, respectively of the CD-Roms and consoles, beyond those relevant to any copyright infringements." "In effect, and apparently intentionally, those restrictions reduce global market competition," said the judgement

yes the ACCC and aust courts frown upon companies that try to stop the consumers right to choice.