This site has become less about aggregating bargains...

[mgexiled]

is this ecogamer.com or ethicalgamer.com?

EDIT: And to the OP - you probably consider yourself an ethical person - so you've never downloaded a movie /tv show, downloaded a game, downloaded a song?

[Spinner]

If you read carefully I used scalping as a light example (probably should have made it clear) because it is a very similar situation and begin to differ on how the product is 'sold/used/traded'.

Evil is debatable, but that's another topic altogether and belongs in economics and ethics.

The key issue is creating the artificial demand by constraining supply.  Society makes a lot of effort to stop companies from doing these types of activities.  It seems odd that we would hold individuals to a lower moral standard.

Using a 'light' example doesn't change the fact there are significant issues with the example.  If you were talking about walking into all the game shops, buying all the Wiis before Christmas and putting them on Ebay, you would have a much better example.

There's too much discussion regarding the price of games etc. which I find diverts the issue being discussed, it's too difficult to compare one country's cost and another without having the full knowledge which I lack, but first thing comes to mind is the country's population, laws, tax, manufacturing costs, shipping etc.

Which could all lead to very different prices, mind you we could still be getting ripped off but that doesn't justify 'scamming'(which I don't agree that we are).

To some extent, CommSec has an answer to this, it is called the 'iPod Index'.  Inspired by the 'Big Mac Index' but using a product with a globally consistent  supply point (as opposed to the Big Mac, which is sourced from local ingredients in most markets).  It includes an approximation of taxes, shipping and other localised issues.  As the marginal cost of creating a game is roughly zero (it costs almost nothing to produce a DVD)  this works, even if the DVDs aren't all stamped in China.   The index implicitly takes into account advertising costs (iPod ads anyone?), but excludes localisation costs which are negligible anyway (the biggest cost with this would be the issue of getting the game classified, which is a one-of cost and not that much anyway).

Although the index shifts on currency fluctuations, we are roughly about 20% dearer on the early 2009 data, not 100% dearer as you see for games.  It isn't perfect, but it is a pretty good guide.

So somewhere, someone is making a fair bit more than they should be...

Seems like I am picking on you Neo.  Maybe I am.

[Andrew]

Geez it's horrible that poorer people are finding ways to find games for a reasonable price. If it wasn't for this site I'd be able to afford bugger all off the $100 a week I currently live off.

Get your head out of your arse mate. EB Games are not stupid when it comes to creating deals (because otherwise they'd be broke) and JB Hi Fi seem to be doing just fine otherwise they would have pulled out of their video game interests soon after they joined in.

Everyone is doing just fine. The above companies make enough money ripping off the average consumer who just want to buy little Johny a new game for his birthday anyway.

[Neo]

The key issue is creating the artificial demand by constraining supply.  Society makes a lot of effort to stop companies from doing these types of activities.  It seems odd that we would hold individuals to a lower moral standard.

Using a 'light' example doesn't change the fact there are significant issues with the example.  If you were talking about walking into all the game shops, buying all the Wiis before Christmas and putting them on Ebay, you would have a much better example.

I very much doubt that, you are reading too much into the 'scalper' detail and not the situation that I have presented, the similarity ends when the scalper/trader trades his games for a set price (a game at JB as opposed to Ebay) who in turns sells it to the public. If we used your Ebay example that would simply describe how a scalper works, which isn't what I was trying to explain using the example but a demonstration that:

The trader/scalper got his game
EB/Big W was able to clear their stock
JB selling the pre-owned stock for profit
And someone who cannot find his copy of 'Trade Bait Wars' at his closest EB/Big W store.

To some extent, CommSec has an answer to this, it is called the 'iPod Index'.  Inspired by the 'Big Mac Index' but using a product with a globally consistent  supply point (as opposed to the Big Mac, which is sourced from local ingredients in most markets).  It includes an approximation of taxes, shipping and other localised issues.  As the marginal cost of creating a game is roughly zero (it costs almost nothing to produce a DVD)  this works, even if the DVDs aren't all stamped in China.   The index implicitly takes into account advertising costs (iPod ads anyone?), but excludes localisation costs which are negligible anyway (the biggest cost with this would be the issue of getting the game classified, which is a one-of cost and not that much anyway).

Although the index shifts on currency fluctuations, we are roughly about 20% dearer on the early 2009 data, not 100% dearer as you see for games.  It isn't perfect, but it is a pretty good guide.

So somewhere, someone is making a fair bit more than they should be...

Seems like I am picking on you Neo.  Maybe I am.

Like I said I'm not completely familiar with the entire chain of how a game is priced in Australia, but again my point is you do not fight fire with fire 'i.e. getting ripped off so you scam someone else'.

It really seems like you are picking on details I write and not paying attention what I'm trying to say. Although I do not mind a sensible argument.

[mgexiled]

"but again my point is you do not fight fire with fire 'i.e. getting ripped off so you scam someone else'."

its not a 'scam' if your playing by the set rules for the people your dealing with
its using their deals to get a benefit - it is not a scam.
scam is amway.
and ab king pro.

[MLTZER]

We are only getting the most out of deals that are offered to us! Whats wrong with that?

I dont agree with a couple people i know who always use the EB 7 day return policy..... they call it 'Free gaming' thats abusing the system.

Ecogamer - Keep up the great work, you will always have the support of myself and many others.

[Neo]

"but again my point is you do not fight fire with fire 'i.e. getting ripped off so you scam someone else'."

its not a 'scam' if your playing by the set rules for the people your dealing with
its using their deals to get a benefit - it is not a scam.
scam is amway.
and ab king pro.

Man people really need to read what I type.

Which could all lead to very different prices, mind you we could still be getting ripped off but that doesn't justify 'scamming'(which I don't agree that we are).

[Klevster]

I personally think using trade bait is fair. I mean JB make the exclusion list and you're abiding by it. I've only started doing it recently, Batman: AA was my first one. When it's a game you really want and have the option of $99 or $50, what are you gunna choose?

To anyone who may feel ill of the trade bait 'scam':
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/11/2652204.htm

45.5% rise in net profit to $94.4mil

Yea, JB certainly are struggling with all the trading we're doing... phew, gee... Might have to wipe all of $10,000 from that bottom line... Man those investors are gonna be pissed...
Based on $10,000, a rough figure, we're affecting their net profit by 0.01%, goddamn someone call the feds!

And this does not even take into effect any other money people have spent while in JB...
Oh wait, could the 3-for-1 trade deal be a way of getting people constantly into their stores, where they may buy other items....
Hang on, you mean to say stores sell things below cost, just to get people in the door so that they may purchase items with high margins....

Also, keep in mind that it is $95 store credit.  You have to use it to buy something that has their retailer markups applied.  If their average markup is something like 40%, then actual cost to them is around $50.

A perfect example for this is: Pure... It's not on the exclusion list at the moment and do you know what EB are offering for people who made trade in for this? $2.... Yep... 2 dollars.... And yet, it's on sale for $20...

So for people buying this game with any store credit, it's cost EB, let's be fair and say $5...
Now I'm fairly sure that most other games on sale have a similar trade-in value with EB...

So, for your $60 of credit, it has 'cost' EB $15.... Again I'll be even fairer and say $20...
Even though you're getting $95 of credit for MW2 or $65 for Forza 3...

Each store credit dollar you get, is only costing EB 33.333333 cents....
And EB will sell a few copies of the newer game you traded in at an inflated price, covering the 'credit' they gave you in the first place...

Even though some people think it's a 'scam' EB are still doing mightily well out of all this... While we're buying their trade bait, they're rubbing their grubby little hands together... As they've marked up said trade bait exponentially from what they provided as a trade price...

Maybe I'm just trying to justify any 'trades' I do... But, even if I do a couple of trades at JB and trade them at EB... Everyone is still winning.... Some simple mathematics and economics can determine that quite easily...

And before someone whinges about people just buying trade bait and 'genuine' people missing out... Why are the games so cheap? They're either ****py games that no one wants, or EB have a surplus of them...
 

[HessianSack]

JB probably take a pretty holistic approach when they work out the success or otherwise of these trade deals.

While a sale that nets them 3 games that would sell for $20 at EB probably isn't very useful too them, there would be plenty of trades advantageous to them.  Yesterday I saw someone trading for MW2 who had GTAIV and COD:WAW amongst his games to trade-in.  That one probably counts as a win in JB's book.  They win some, they lose some, and they build up their (relatively) small collection of pre-owned games, as they're (relatively) new to that market.

And they've had plenty of chances to change the exclusion list.  If they don't like it, they can fix it instantly.

[Charlie Miso]

98% of the front page news is bargain related, 40% of which is community driven.


Now, I don't care for the constant 'trade-bait chatter' either (but I'm one of those smarter people who can wait a few months before playing a game) but your rant is both obnoxious and incorrect.

[Spinner]

I am not going to quote Neo again, these posts are getting too long.

I suggest we just drop the scalper example all together.  I don't think anyone actually has trouble understanding how the trading system works.

The retailers set the rules, we just play by them.  As I said, I draw the line at manipulating return policies for store credit.  I agree that using the 7 day period is wrong, although I won't complain if anyone rips off EB, as they are a leach on  the entire industry.

One thing I would like to know is who is the CAG?

[mgexiled]

how can using the 7 dayperiod be wrong if thats the deal thats put in place?

[MLTZER]

well the 7 day policy is there for when you buy a game and once you play it you realise you dont like it. Not for EB to be used as a public library.

When people buy a game they know they will like with every intention of returning it once they finished it IMO is abusing the system and will ruin it for people who generally dont like the games they buy.

[Chief]

I think a few people have missed the point. Retailers aren't adversely affected by people exploiting trade-in deals to the extreme, your fellow bargain hunters are. Ecogamer is a community site, run by generous people such as Anthony with a view to helping others find cheap games. Ultimately, the health of the Ecogamer community is at stake here.

When people clean out several entire stores for cheap trade-in games depriving anyone else from getting any games, where is the incentive to report bargains for others?

[Klevster]

When people clean out several entire stores for cheap trade-in games depriving anyone else from getting any games, where is the incentive to report bargains for others?

True for some titles, but not the majority...

Look at the frequently traded games:
Lost....
CSI....
Frontlines: Fuel of War....
NFL Tour...
Over G Fighters...
Ferrari Challenge...
Sega Superstars Tennis...
FEAR...
Turning Point....

No one gives a stuff about those games... And are often cheaper on eBay...

And a lot of people are picking up the games for $20 from EBs that have been there, on sale, for weeks, months even

Point taken though...